Lord Howe of Aberavon: My Lords, the striking feature about the work of the so-called "cross-party" group has from the outset been a search for consensus. "Consensus" is defined in any dictionary as "general agreement" or "comprehensive agreement". Against that background, we have heard many times from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, that the search is not just for consensus between the two parties, but also for consensus, as it must be, between the two Houses. When I say that, I do not mean to cast any doubt on the principle of the primacy of the House of Commons. However, that was not the principle that we applied in 1999. A compromise was arrived at and consensus was reached in 1999. It surely must be right to seek consensus taking account of the views of this House. The views of this House must be being expressed—one wonders, by whom—in the discussions taking place in the cross-party group.
	The only matter that is obstructing the progress of this Bill along the lines supported by the noble Lord, Lord Steel, to whom I pay tribute, and the noble Lord, Lord Lea, is the argument about elected Members or not. I suggest that that need not inhibit the Bill's progress. As to why this is still on the agenda, I must ask three questions. Is there any fault to be corrected by the arrival of elected Members? Is there any improvement to be achieved by the arrival of elected Members? One scours in vain all the documents about this topic that have been published for any evidence to support the answer "yes" to either of those questions. The third question is: what is the reason for any such change? Again, one asks that almost in vain, but one gets an answer; that is, that it is necessary to make this change to deal with the problem of legitimacy. That argument has disappeared since 1999. The reason for the sense of our illegitimacy was the fact that the House had a built-in Tory majority of an overwhelming size. That is why we hesitated ever to use our powers. There is therefore no reason to respond to that.
	There remains the question: why then should we now be contemplating election as an added component? The curious answer is given by the House of Commons Public Administration Select Committee under the chairmanship of Mr Tony Wright, which said that any change that was made should take account of the,
	"widespread public disillusionment with our political system",
	because of the,
	"virtually untrammelled control... by the Executive",
	of the elected House.
	The committee reached two conclusions: first, the need,
	"to ensure that the dominance of Parliament by the Executive, including the political Party machines, is reduced not increased".
	Secondly, the committee's fifth report says that the second Chamber must be,
	"neither rival nor replica, but genuinely complementary to the Commons",
	and, therefore,
	"as different as possible".
	It is hard to see why at any stage in the future—although we are not at that point yet—a replica of another elected House, wholly, partially or at all, can be the answer to that problem. The truth is—and this is the important thing—that perhaps we have not recognised the extent to which the House has been transformed so that there is no need to go beyond the very clearly defined ground set out in the Bill proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Steel. The reason for saying that was quoted to the House by none less than the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, when he spoke in the previous debate on this matter on 19 July. He said that,
	"this House has performed very well since the major changes made in 1999. We need to build on... the incredibly valuable role of this House as a revising and scrutinising Chamber".—[Official Report, 19/7/07; col. 396.]
	That is the present position. The reason given for blocking this Bill—because a process is still taking place in search of some other consensus—is unfounded.
	The noble Lord, Lord Steel, closed by drawing our attention to what is necessary and added to that by quoting a sentence often quoted by my right honourable friend David Cameron:
	"We keep what is good and change what we need to change".
	No evidence is before the House or anywhere else to suggest that this House is other than good. If one asks the question, "What do we need to change?", the answer is that embraced by the consensus supporting the Bill introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Steel. It is necessary change that will remain necessary as long as the other argument lingers on. I should like to think that those representing any party in this House in deliberations as a cross-party group will represent those arguments in search of a genuine consensus that can be achieved while most of us are still alive.